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Pretty in Punk
by Thea and feldman

Part 1/6 located here
Part 2/6 located here


Pretty in Punk
by Thea and feldman

***

D'Argo hits the doorpad and nothing happens. He growls, shoves the strap of his pack higher on his shoulder and slams his hand against the pad again. Nothing. Frelling carrier tech; everything's either sharp or bulky, black or red when it isn't grey, and uniformly boring even when it works properly. What good's a ship you can't talk with?

He lays his palm on the lock and barks, "Override!" voice raspy dry from too much yelling and not enough sleep. He just needs to lie down for an arn or two before meeting the guys at the pool. Water and friends are the only things he can't get on Moya, the things that make staying on a carrier worth the aggravation, make putting up with the cramped quarters and the drenhead cadets worthwhile. The door slides open and D'Argo stumbles through, propelled by weariness and his heavy pack.

The conversation stops with his entrance.

"Well, look what the cat dragged in."

D'Argo fights the yawn, face squinching as his jaws stretch open behind closed lips.

"I remember that face." His mother crosses her arms. "He used to make that face right before he needed changing."

His dad chuckles as he strips the pack from his shoulders and pushes him toward bed. Not the cadet cot against the far wall, but the big bed, covered in fur and murmuring sweet comfortable nothings to D'Argo.

"Just gonna lie down for a few minutes. Gonna go swimming."

"Understood, son." His mom pushes him down and tugs off his boots. "Just a few minutes."

"Guys...make a team, y'know? Tel'cademy needs a team." The bedding is cool against his cheek. There's a tug beneath him and half the coverlet lands over him. "Swim team."

"He looks so innocent."

"He looks like a burrito."

"B'rrito?"

"Like a gwiero."

D'Argo's too snug and comfortable to take offense. Instead he thinks of how yummy the gwieros on Hyneria were. He flickers into dreams of Papa Ryg's country estate, his parent's voices filtering through in a fading undertone.

"He does, a little; a boy-filled palace treat. So. Are you ready?"

"As I'll ever be."

"You don't have to do this, you know."

"I do. I'll give it this chance, I'll keep my end of the bargain. But I can't risk it again, Aeryn."

"Fine. Then let's do this."

His dad sighs, muttering, "Now I know how Snuggles felt."

He doesn't have a clue as to what his parents are talking about, doesn't care exactly. They sound more like them now, teasing and easy with each other, pushing and pulling and in tune like the Prowler when it's just been repaired, when it hums in perfect pitch.

He feels his mom touch his forehead to brush his hair back, feels her cool lips on his cheek and then their footsteps disappear. He thinks of water and Hyneria, swimming in the palace pools, Papa Ryg sneaking him marjoules and tiny cakes when no one was looking. The prerogatives of royalty, he'd said.

The other guys can swim, but none of them have seen Hyneria, they don't know how to hold their breath in a rhythm so that it cycles through, keeps you buoyant, follows your stroke. He's got lungs as strong as any Sebacean, and he kicks ass in the freestyle crawl and the breaststroke. When they start the team... he drifts off to thoughts of cheering crowds and competition, cutting cleanly through water and winning, beating the crap out of the cadets who learn to swim only because they have to and then still think they're so much frelling better than everyone else.

***

She puts in the orders to the tech herself, not quite trusting John or the medical staff to submit the proper paperwork for the procedure without specifics.

Sterilization is unusual, a request for one unheard of on a command carrier, and while he adamantly wants this absurdity, she knows he's nervous. He fiddles with his belt, joggles her arm, talks too loudly as they wait for the approval. Bravado propels him as much as determination and he's still unintelligible to most Peacekeepers when the bravado's at its worst. The med techs don't care much what they do, a task is a task, but the command structure still reviews every request in the queue and there remain issues of lingering resentment and distrust. She wants him sterilized, not castrated.

She doesn't mention that particular possibility to John, knowing it'd be a cheap shot. Doesn't mean she's not tempted though.

They sit in the waiting area until the med tech comes for them. He leaves them alone in the room, and when John takes off his pants, sits on the table in his t-shirt and shorts, his black socks incongruous with his pale legs, she feels a flutter of compassion and a wave of sorrow. She doesn't intend to have offspring with other men should she outlive John, and so this pregnancy will be her last chance for another child. If the fetus dies, that will be it. She has faced far worse things, but it bites a little, stings with the removal of possibility.

John offers up his hand and she moves towards him, sliding his thigh between her legs and stroking the back of his neck. She presses her lips against the softness of his hair and he wraps his arm around her waist, holding her to him. "This is gonna hurt like a mother, isn't it?"

She pulls back, raises an eyebrow. "That would be my guess," she says, fighting back a dark grin. She's not looking forward to labor with anticipation, either. Hurt like a mother, indeed.

"It's the right decision," he says, voice heavy and determined. She doesn't argue with him. It's his choice as much as release the fetus was hers. Control of their bodies, their lives. It's something they fight for everyday. She cannot condemn his choice even though she doesn't like it, can't deny him the right.

The surgeon enters and she steps away from John, staying close enough so that he can reach for her if he wants to.

"Take them off," the physician says, voice colorless.

John removes the shorts, looking terribly vulnerable bared to the room. The surgeon injects something into the join of his thigh and he twitches. Lifting up his testicles, the surgeon slides the thin laser into position and flicks it on.

"Goddamn sonofabitch," John growls, but doesn't look at her. He only grunts the second time.

And it's done. He's no longer able to produce children.

"You'll be numb for the next arn," the surgeon warns, "and then there will be more pain. I wouldn't...put unnecessary strain on it if I were you." With a perfunctory keying of a datapad, he leaves.

John's face is ashy, his trembling fingers as likely from the shock as the anesthetic. "Think I need a little help here, baby."

Aeryn helps her husband dress, carefully sliding the zipper up, buckling his belt. She runs her hands over the small of his back, soothing him as she soothes her son when he's overly tired or hurt.

John pulls her towards him, clinging to her. "Didn't think it was going to feel like that," he says, mouth moving against her cheek.

"No," she says, "Neither did I."

***

John shakes the boy's shoulder. "Hey, sleepyhead."

D'Argo mumbles and humphs into the covers, curling away from consciousness. John pulls the fur off and starts tugging at the sheet wound around his son.

"Come on, D', day shift's half over and I'm sick of taking your messages."

There's an inquisitive grunt.

"Your crew have been comming you for arns now. Last I heard it sounded like they were heading toward the pool."

That flips the switch from curl to stretch, limbs angling out in sweeping arcs that propel him off the edge of the bed. Planned or not, he lands on his feet and heads toward the fresher without opening his eyes.

John ambles to the console and lets the kids know they'll be there in half an arn. He adjusts the small cold pack tucked in his shorts, looking forward to hanging out in the cool buoyant water of the pool.

Since they're going to be on the carrier for the duration, he might as well take the opportunity to work with these kids face to face as much as possible. Too much of this teaching gig happens over vid. The nature of the telacademy is ad hoc, catch as catch can and run from a distance, and it's the best option available for families on the move--even when mediated by long-range communications, it's the most diverse education they could offer D'Argo--but John likes being able to be in the same room with his students for a change, being able to offer them something more than assignments and tests on a console. He enjoys showing them how to do something physical that they didn't think they could do, loves the looks on their faces when they get it.

Swimming is just a way to teach them how to get along with each other in real time, work together toward a goal.

Sportsmanship, friendly competition, negotiation on a micro level; he's a co-ed, co-species coach working the Romeos and Juliets while Aeryn handles the Whatsits and the Capulets. Johnny Radiation teaching good citizenship through Little League. He knows that the coda to his reputation, for anyone who still cares, is that he's brain damaged and pathetic, a sad hollow shell of an outlaw living out his years on his wife's good graces. It's reduced the number of folks looking to make a name by killing him. Conflict mediation among teenagers is more his speed anyway; they tend to be more coherent than governments.

He's got twenty-odd kids, boys and girls and some in-between modes, from a handful of species. Enough for a decent intramural program even if none of the carrier cadets sign on.

Who knows when the team will be able to reassemble again, but that's a concern for later, the least among many. For now they can practice and maybe have a meet or two before they split off to their respective ships and lives and solitary consoles where, if they're lucky, they can see a small holo image of their classmates if the local telecom net can handle it.

D'Argo pops out of the fresher, hair as unruly as before. John intercepts him at the door, using all of his will not to hobble. "Shower."

"I'm going to the pool, I'm just gonna get wet again--"

"Technically true, but I'm not taking you anywhere when you stink."

"I showered yesterday, I don't stink."

"Want me to comm mom, have her be the judge?"

He glares at the floor and trudges back to the fresher.

"Hurry it up, I called practice in a half an arn."

"Yeah yeah."

John parks himself on a chair and tries not to dwell on his crotch. Aside from the initial piercing pain, it's not as bad as he'd feared. When he rummaged in the first aid kit for the cold pack he'd found a packet of an analgesic he recognized, so he's been sailing along on that for a few arns now. He might even eat later on today.

Now they just need to get Aeryn through this pregnancy safe and they can both concentrate on finishing what they started with the boy, do all they can to send a good man out into the universe.

A good woman too, maybe, if they get the chance. A daughter. He promised Aeryn he'd prepare for the best outcome.

He's in the middle of the grocery list when D'Argo emerges from the fresher. Over a thousand microts in the shower and the kid doesn't look a hell of a lot cleaner, but odds are he smells better than he did when he went in. It's a marvel and universal fact that teenage boys have a fear of soap that rivals the fear and intrigue of girls, yet they'll stand under the spray until an entire cargo ship of hot water passes down the drain.

"Where's Mom?" D' shoves his towel and flipflops into his rucksack, wriggles back into his t-shirt.

"Board meeting."

His son rolls his eyes. “No, really.”

"She's securing the arrangements for our extended visit, setting up some meetings while we're here. You know how everything's gotta be cleared through command, even when they have no objections. PKs are hell bent on bureaucracy. Makes the US government look positively impromptu in comparison. Course, the White House doesn’t send people to jail for frelling up a shipping invoice."

His son ignores him, used to the rambling by now. "So what're you doing?"

John hauls himself up, shoves the list into his own bag. "Grocery shopping. You and I are gonna go grab some gear at the end of the month."

"Field trip?" His son's smile is joyous and bright, a version of one of Aeryn's good day smiles.

John grins back and tries not to limp as he follows D' out the door. "Field trip."

***

They're greeted with jangling noise, high-fives for the boy, yells and catcalls, hollers of "Hey Commander" and "Yo, Mr. C, what's up." None of these kids speak English except for his son, and the translations are probably hysterical. They're parroting back D'Argo's suggestions and seem pleased with them. A few of the older Sebacean girls, fourteen or fifteen, bodies developing and minds light years ahead of their males peers give him knowing smiles, and he fights back a grin.

It's the innocence more than anything. The female cadets don't look at him like that, don't flirt. To them, he's still a killer, a traitor, someone to fear and loathe. Aeryn was one of those cadets, he knows; she followed orders, hated who she was supposed to hate, lived and breathed flight and fight, probably recreating already at that age.

These girls, well, he really doesn't want to know anything about their sex lives, but he can see in them the curiosity that he recognizes as part of growing up in a free society, growing up with the room to explore the tangles of that curiosity, to tease and play with both their bodies and their minds, to be smart and sassy and explore and flirt with their old man of a swim coach who they see as an easy mark, unthreatening and harmless.

If this daughter thing works out, when she's fifteen he's going to frelling lock her in a cell on Moya until puberty passes and he can select a nice boy for her with whom she will never, ever have sex. And with his genes and Aeryn's combined, she'll probably pick the lock and shoot her way to the nearest port of call long before that.

The group is rambling and noisy and rowdy, a little shoving here and there, a little honest trash talk and it's time to get this party started.

"Twenty laps, warm up with all four strokes. We're gonna do some sprints and some drills and then maybe have a little contest."

The giggling turns into splashes and slaps of water as the kids peel off the edges, slipping into the pool like slick glittery fish. He looks at them in wonder before he strips off his t-shirt and eases his own body into the cool water of an empty slow-side lane.

He takes a couple of easy laps in the slow lane, trying to not get slapped too much by the wake of young bodies with way too much energy knifing through the water. He's not up for much exercise, but the flutter kick doesn't hurt too badly and he needs to stretch out the muscles that his wife wore out the night before. The pain is worth the trade off of freer muscles, and he'll tuck the ice back later.

He's got a list of stuff worked out of the things they'll need for a new infant, and he wishes that it felt giddy and joyous, like D's birth had. But he remembers the hubris too well, the absolute certainty that one birth was very much the same as another and the absolute sucker punch shock of getting through yet another random firefight with only a few grazes and then Aeryn's body saying fuck you both very much.

He remembers the blood loss and her ash white face, eyes glazed, the light in them dimming out because they didn't have access to anything more than cotton padding until they could repair the conduit lines for starburst.

It was a toss up whether or not to use the kill-shot and wake her up once they'd starburst to the nearest system, once they had access to a real doctor, and maybe she wouldn't have lost so much blood if they hadn't waited so long, hadn't held out hope that the gush of blood wasn't the end of that particular child.

He nearly lost everything that day. He still feels damned lucky they got through it only a little worse for wear. She roused like a trooper when the doc jabbed in the revival shot, recovering with her usual carrier-born swiftness, and they decided never to risk her health or her life again.

He does an easy flip turn, sucks in his breath as his body suggests that swimming wasn't such a fabulous idea. He turns onto his back in a lazy backstroke down the length of the pool, hissing a little as the pain recedes, as he puts the memory and the fear away.

"Hey Kai, why don't you stretch a little more, your dorsal arms look a bit stiff. Once everyone's warmed up we'll do A and B relays."

Kai sighs heavily, sloshing toward the poolside to work on his arms.

He doesn't really mind that his rep is gone, doesn't mind not being John Crichton, scourge of the universe, he likes living in his wife's shadow. He's so damned proud of Aeryn, surprised and pleased and proud that her fine mind has allowed them some diplomatic immunity. He's pretty sure that a few strings got pulled, a few hints whispered about, and that in the beginning it was fear as much as anything that got the Crichton/Sun duo in the cabinet rooms and embassies. One too many outbursts on his part had cemented the idea that he was still a cowboy but useless now, an eccentric appendage to the real brains.

He'd been a hotshot for most of his life, young and bright, he'd had a small flurry of media attention, had been the star of the show before becoming Mr. Most Wanted, and he's pretty damned content these days to just take the ride, care for his family, and practice peace on a smaller scale. It stings once in a while, but it's a burn he can live with.

Live being the operative word. Still, they have to be careful. Not everyone's happy to have the past behind them, and there are still bounties for his head and for Aeryn's in certain jurisdictions. He doesn't even kid her about her price being higher now. She doesn't think it's funny.

He teaches physics, sure, theoretical science and inter-dimensional mathematics, but he doesn't touch on wormholes as anything other than theory. And he doesn't talk to anyone about the way they still dance in his head sometimes like a junior prom tease, awkward with potential; the way he knows, if he tries, that he could work it out again. Maybe not sniff them out like sugar glaze and sea salt, maybe not ride that scent like a rollercoaster, but figure them out and make 'em work. He isn't limited, and the knowledge had always been there. Before Furlow, he'd been on the right track. But it isn't something he talks about to anyone, not even Aeryn, not now. If it ever becomes an issue...well, they'll deal. They're good at dealing.

He completes another lap, a little breathless and questioning his choice to exercise, then hauls himself out of the pool, fires up the lap timer and writes the sets on the board, gives the kids a couple thousand microts to finish the drills.

D' finishes first in his lane, shaking water off his hair like a young seal. He's growing so fast these days, gangly and a little awkward, but a bright beautiful regular kid. He looks over at John and sends a splash of water towards him, a bit of a challenge, a good-natured dare.

"All right, " John says, when they're red-faced or blue-faced or white-faced with exertion. "We're gonna learn to play a game."

The kids split up into a group at each side of the square pool, colored patches on their suits designating each five-being intramural team. John reaches into his gear bag for a handful of marker tags and he can see the kids tense, feel them rev their engines waiting for the light to turn green.

He leans against the wall panel casually, keying in a series of currents and jets that will turn the pool into an ever-changing body of active water. PKs learn how to swim because they may need to deal with rivers, floods, and tides, so while their training pool didn't come with pre-marked lanes, it does have a "rapids" setting. John keys in a twenty-minute sequence and starts the jets, tossing a handful of markers into the water as it begins to churn.

Speed is one thing. "On your mark."

Agility is another. "Get set."

Teamwork yet another. "Go!"

The kids kick off into a seething mass of water and flailing limbs, chasing after the tags which sink or float or drift in the currents depending on their variable mass. Soon tags fly through the air, each one a point only if it lands safely on that team's side. Kai-sen isn't so fast in the water, but he specializes in catching tags lobbed by other teams, intercepting them and whipping them to his own side.

John readies another handful of marker tags, vigilant for any sputtering or foul play. It's been weeks since he's had to drag anyone out for air, but only a few days since the last elbowing incident. Water is far easier to navigate than other people, with their flailing limbs and emotional passions, but he figures this ad-hoc swim team is more than just an exercise in keeping everyone busy.

The universe isn't about straight lines and speed, after all. It's teamwork and bruises and keeping your eyes on the goal without kicking someone in the face.

***

"Love is like teamwork, son."

D'Argo eyes squint as his eyebrows rise, bracing for the pain of embarrassment, the awkward travail of another Serious Talk.

"When you love someone, you take care of them and let them take care of you; friendship is the most important part of it. If you aren't friends...lemme start over."

D'Argo rests his forearms along his thighs, limbs angling in to take up less space, as if he could plane through the conversation faster that way, as if it were a patch of murky water to get through.

"It's three things, son; sex, friendship and love. When you've got all three firing there's nothing that can beat it. Two out of three ain't bad," his dad pauses to smile, "but if you have to pick one, make it friendship. That's the most important part."

"Not love?"

"Love on its own will make you crazy, no question about it, and sex can complicate it beyond all reason. Sex on its own can make you relaxed, but lonely. But friendship, all on its own, can keep you going through the worst of your life."

He's not planning on falling in love with anybody until he's well into his thirties, but since his dad's being so frank he might as well get his reaction on the other options. "Sex and friendship?"

"Is a workable thing, when you start off as friends. You have to know how to be someone's friend before you can tackle love or sex without anyone getting hurt. Even then, you can still get hurt, you just have a better way of talking to each other about it."

"Nebari contagion, pregnancy, Ilanic tanka-pox."

"Easier to avoid than to deal with--but you also need to take care of your heart, and be responsible with the hearts of other people. Feelings are easy to hurt, and sometimes love just sucks, there's no other way around it. But if you start from friendship and treat each other honestly and fairly, you've got a way to work it out."

"Be friends first." D'Argo nods, imagining himself stroking through the last metra of murky water toward clean and clear. "That makes sense."

"Good talk, son?"

"Yeah, dad."

"Go clean up. If we're late for dinner your mom will eat our plates, too."

D'Argo focuses on his food during dinner, knowing that it'll be mom's turn next. They used to talk to him both at once when these things came up, but dad would get too flustered and they'd end up discussing all kinds of other things instead of boy/girl stuff. D's the one who started asking them questions one on one, and they followed suit as the years went by. While it means he often has to suffer through two conversations instead of one, at least they're a lot more clear, and over much quicker.

A few days later mom takes him to the shuttle pod for a maintenance check, making him wriggle into the spots that her growing belly now keeps her out of.

"Your father said you two had a good conversation the other day."

D'Argo scratches his shoulder blade against the deck, squirming in the tight space under the navigation panel. There's an overflow circuit that tends to stick open, so he's cleaning the old layer of grease off to hit it with a lighter valve lube. "Yeah."

"Sex and love and friendship, right?"

"Yeah, and friendship is the most important, the one to start off with."

"Seems easy, doesn't it?" His mom hums. "Did he happen to tell you that he and I started off with the sex first?"

Mom talks are exponentially more awkward and painful than dad talks--but she usually comes across with better info. He shifts his boots, glad that most of him is tucked under the panel where he can't see her. "Yeah?"

She laughs, "Oh, yes." He can hear her take his jacket and settle on the deck. "Sex was the easiest thing for us; at first it's what kept us coming back to each other as we figured out the friendship thing."

He turns the rag, methodically wiping grease from the trip circuit. "When did you know you loved dad?"

There's a thoughtful silence and D'Argo forgets to breath until she finally speaks. "I'm not sure, really. I didn't want to love *anyone*, and so for a long time I convinced myself that I didn't. Then I tried to convince myself that it didn't matter. Then it hurt too much to think about at all."

"So it was just sex and friendship."

"Sometimes just one or the other. On good days, both."

"On bad days?"

"On bad days there was only the love, and that's not enough to do anything except hurt like hell."

He tries to imagine it, and even with the tension between them about the new baby, he can't picture them as anything other than what they are to each other. "If you were friends before, how could you not be later?"

"Your dad and I...we were kind of like the situation on this xeno-carrier. Uneasy allies. Friends who misunderstand each other, and hurt each other on accident. People who had to learn how to talk to each other and be with each other, who had to work it out from the bottom up."

"But you kept trying."

"We did. Over and over until we figured it out."

He drops the rag near his shoulder and plucks the tube of valve oil, squinting as he applies a thin drip around the trip circuit. "Because of the sex or the love?"

"Because we had the chance to put it all together." She lays a warm hand on his shin, just above the tongue of his boot. "If we weren't afraid to take it."

That's what sticks with him later, that the whole boy/girl mess was enough to make his own mom afraid--maybe the only thing that ever did--but she kept working at it until came out right.

~*~con't tomorrow~*~
Next part here

Date: 2005-06-22 05:08 pm (UTC)
jebbypal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jebbypal
Still incredible!! ahhh..can't wait till tomorrow.

Date: 2005-06-29 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rubberneck.livejournal.com
Thank you very much!

Date: 2005-06-22 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
oh d'argo's response to a ship that's not moya is delightful. and his memory of rygel, hee! wonderful.

this says so much about how aeryn understands john, and how he functions: "Bravado propels him as much as determination and he's still unintelligible to most Peacekeepers when the bravado's at its worst. "

the layers of loss, and enrichment feel very true to these characters and their pattern of living. and the risk they take in letting go of d'argo "sending him out into the universe", that shows in every part of this beautifully.

bwahaha! "And with his genes and Aeryn's combined, she'll probably pick the lock and shoot her way to the nearest port of call long before that."

i love john's pondering of how the wormhole knowledge still resides inside of him. and the conversations aeryn and john have with d'argo are perfect. *g*

Date: 2005-06-29 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rubberneck.livejournal.com
oh d'argo's response to a ship that's not moya is delightful. and his memory of rygel, hee! wonderful.

We tried to make him a child of his world, not just his folks ; )

this says so much about how aeryn understands john, and how he functions: "Bravado propels him as much as determination and he's still unintelligible to most Peacekeepers when the bravado's at its worst."

That's Thea; she gets into Aeryn's head pretty deep sometimes, sees things through her eyes.

Date: 2005-06-29 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenlev.livejournal.com
that really shows well. from his point of view earth is alien enough to open another window for the reader. and yeah thea, i completely agree. *g*

Date: 2005-06-23 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unwritten-words.livejournal.com
Wow. This story is just amazing. The characters are so real and believable. I love the friendship and the teamwork, two themes interwoven throughout the plots and subplots. Lovely work, you two. Simply mah-velous. :)

Date: 2005-06-29 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rubberneck.livejournal.com
Thank you very much 8 ) We realized about halfway through that our major gist was the pros and cons of playing nice, and everything seemed to fall into that in some way or another.

Date: 2005-06-23 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simplystars.livejournal.com
*still giggling* dude, this is like the ultimate ParentFic. :D i shall have to construct you two a dual shrine.

more YIM feedback, a la James Joyce:

stars: ack! he's really doing it!
stars: ah, dude. it's okay. men do it all the time.
stars: it's so exactly what he'd do if he got his dander up.

stars: he doesn't want any more surprises. he's in control.
stars: and hey, if they can reverse them here, in the UTs if they used a laser? definitely fixable.
stars: so just... a really drastic interim measure.

stars: hee! If this daughter thing works out, when she's fifteen he's going to frelling lock her in a cell on Moya until puberty passes and he can select a nice boy for her with whom she will never, ever have sex. And with his genes and Aeryn's combined, she'll probably pick the lock and shoot her way to the nearest port of call long before that.

stars: oy, they used the kill shot. shit.
stars: that would definitely leave a mark on poor john.

thank you both so much for this story. ::hugs::

Date: 2005-06-23 01:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
kill shot was ingenious... love that tactic.

and I STILL think John's an asshole, even after they 'made up' because he's still thinking it's all going to go pear shaped. twit. twit twit twit twit twit.

gah! I'm just going to obsess about how much I hate John now all day. :D

Date: 2005-06-23 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - my only prediction is that by the end of the story, you won't hate him anymore:) I hope. Because neither of them are perfect, they're both so flawed, and so loveable in their really frelling annoying flaws and they're raising this great kid. But John's freaked out that he's gonna lose the last anchor he has, that a bad decision on his part or on Aeryn's is going to leave his kid alone and vulnerable in this universe and that scares him as much as anything.

Date: 2005-06-23 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
still hate him - not the loate of this morning - after reading part 3. Why can't the fuckiing guy be happy about the blessed event than being a downer. Dumbasslitteltwit - shoulda castrated him.

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Date: 2005-06-23 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
He's freaked out. This is his life, his world and scope. He traded the powers of the universe for this. He wants to keep it:)

Date: 2005-06-23 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
i think i figured out what's made me so pissed -- it's that the dumb shit didn't want to be a part of the decision to go ahead with the pregnancy in the first place and then has the nerve to be pissed when Aeryn doesn't make the 'right' decision in his point of view. Fastest way to a hate-on for me, that and the fact that it mirrors a little close to home for me on a different matter all together. makes me hate men in general and John Crichton specific - freaked out or not, he took himself out of the decision making process by refusing to participate. he can't bitch about the outcome and then lay terms for the upcoming battle.

ASSHAT!! GAH!@!!!!!!!

this rant brought to you today because ck would rather rant about John Crichton's lack of moral fortitude than pick minerals

Date: 2005-06-23 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Yeah, but to his credit, he freaked out and is living and dealing with it. They fought, put things on the table, and now are parsing the fallout. And it's not all bad. And he is following through on his end, cognizant that he's sort of being an asshole, willing to still do what needs to be done. That moment when they're fighting, and it switches over to sex, he tells her he'll do whatever she needs to have done. And that's when I stopped being annoyed with him, and just started hoping for the best.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
yup. true. I'm still pissed he brought the freak out to the degree he did.

at least it's a credit to you guys' good writing that you've made me HATE a character by making him infallable. Bwuaaaaaaaaa. I mean, seriously. Had I not read the story, I wouldn't be thinking this at all! Hee. THis is SO very real, human reaction and everything!

Date: 2005-06-23 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Losing everything. It tends to freak a man out when he's already witnessed it first hand. And he's not infallable. But I'm a little freaked out that John's coming across as such an asshole. Because I'm not seeing him that way. I'm seeing him as angry and emotional and freaked out by the potential, but still a good guy. I don't want things to be unbalanced, I guess.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com


Just the one thing I mentioned up above set me off, and it hits close to home. THAT'S why I think John's an asshole. :D But otherwise, yeah, you bring up all good points. He's freaked out, for good reason, and he wants his happy little home life with wife and kid and doesn't want anything to mess with it.

I'm sure by the end of the story, I won't hate John so much, but today, he pisses me off. Until I quit obsessing over him dropping the decision-making on Aeryn and then pissing in everyone's cheerios because he didn't like the outcome, he's going to be a bad guy in my eyes.

But it's because he is being seen as an asshole by some is what makes this story DIFFERENT than the other dren out there... you're willing to take the risk of having the John-lovers argue with you with their commentary of "oh, but John wouldn't do that!" because he damn well could! And you've demonstrated it so beautifully!

I'll just go shut up now. :D

Date: 2005-06-23 06:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - they're both capable of being assholes:) That's why I love them. And mostly, I don't want this to feel like we're idealizing Aeryn and making John irredeemably assholish, or incompetent.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
good god yes, they both can be assholes. But right now, I don't see Aeryn as one. :D

but that's beside the point.

Again, I gotta reread, but Aeryn's not communicating her wants and wishes - which has always been a problem with her - and John's over-reaction , to me, seems one-sided because Aeryn ISN'T overreacting. Does that make sense?

I gotta reread it. Perhaps tonight.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Yeah, makes sense. And she's not overreacting, but she made her decision and sort of let him think he has a say. which he doesn't - concession or not. She'd made her decision, and his reactions are legitimate because her decision doesn't simply effect her.

But I think maybe you need to reread it without the hate on for John:) hee.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
And she's not overreacting, but she made her decision and sort of let him think he has a say. which he doesn't - concession or not.

this is what i don't think comes across nearly as well as John being an asshole to me, anyway. From rereading that section, I don't get the sense that Aeryn had MADE a decision, but more of a she's not ruling out anything. And the desire to have the kid, well yeah, she wants the kid, but her stubborn streak also kicks into high gear as soon as he says 'no'. That's how I read it, anyway.

Yup, his reactions ARE legitimate because Aeryn doesn't see the forest family for the leafy trees. We know that because we know Aeryn, but the casual reader checking into this story might not get that. And sometimes we as fans and readers need to be told that as well.

Eh. I'm obsessing, because if I'm obsessing, it means I'm not picking minerals and I don't want to pick minerals. Hee!

Date: 2005-06-23 06:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee - all legitimate points:)

Date: 2005-06-23 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
you're going nuts, aren't you? heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

dude, man, the story is awesome! really! somewhere, someone (probably stars) mentioned that it's funny to try and pick out who wrote what part, and there are a lot of places in here that I can't tell the difference. You guys melded this thing so well, and it's a real human story. Which is probably why you're getting this knee jerk reaction from me. :D It's great storytelling, awesome to the end. Because we're not discussing plot points so much as discussing foibles and personality quirks and not "john/aeryn wouldn't do that" but "omg, people like that piss me off!" or "i can so empathize with that character!"

they are raising a wonderful kid, and we're going to get a taste of their different parenting styles in part 4, so you know there's more drama to come. Bwuaaaaaaaa.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Hee:) Thanks baby:) I think that's what I needed to hear:)

Date: 2005-06-23 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
my hate-on for John does not detract from my love for the story

heeeeeeeeeeee


but I luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv yoooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuu

Date: 2005-06-23 05:15 pm (UTC)
kernezelda: (Lymond penknife)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
Questions:
Why is Aeryn a hero? When did she become known as more than Crichton' grunt? Why is she not seen as a traitor, when she is? She was responsible as much as he and Crais for the destruction of a command carrier and a gammak base, actions she could have stopped if she believed they were unjustified.

Why is John seen as a traitor, when he has never been a Sebacean, never been nor wanted to be loyal to Peacekeepers? What incident made him a pathetic, hollow shell of man living in his wife's graces? What graces?

Where is Scorpius?

Comments:
Much as I love this story, it feels unbalanced, as if Aeryn is perfect, reasonable in all things, respectable and respected, while John is unreasonable, immature and childish, not respected. I don't get this, and it really is kind of offputting.

I'm sorry. There are many things I love. Their interactions with D'Argo feel true, and the supporting details are interesting - jugs of water, sleeping/drinking/peeing, the classes John teaches and the tele-academy background, D'Argo's swimming skills, and the young girls' harmless flirting, the young boys' awe and admiration.

So much to love, yet I cannot shake the feeling of imbalance and idealization of Aeryn, which is fine, if John is also seen at his best, but it feels like she is being made to shine, while he is being grubbed down, unequal.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
you know... I hadn't thought of it in that light... Aeryn in a bit idealized and John made to look like an ass.... heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

sorry. it just struck me that way as well, but I'd rather harp on John being an ass.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
I think part of what we wanted to do here was give them both work, give them purpose outside of themselves, something to do and I don't think it's so much that Aeryn is seen as heroic, as that her work is more visible. She does see the greater universal outcome, and John is better at the narrow point of focus. I think much of that comes from everything they've seen and done, from the things she's learned from him and you're right. Maybe we do need to dial down the idealism a little, show John shining in different ways, show Aeryn's mistakes in other ways. I think some of what we wanted to come through is the idea that she's looking beyond her family at work that needs to be done, and her absences come with a price. That John is keeping things together on the home front, is doing good, important work with his students, with shaping these young individuals.

I also think that some of the inequity will get balanced out in the last section. But now you have really made me want to go back and redress some of it, show some of Aeryn's stubborness, her need to follow what she wants at the expense of a lot of things. As you said, to balance them so that they both come off as both heroic and flawed. Of course, I do think a lot of the conversation, the fight about the baby does this. John may be acting stubborn and closed minded, but he's not wrong about the risk or her right to take it in the context of what it means for them all.

I also don't think they'd get any sort of warm reception aboard a full command carrier, but the xeno-carrier is an experiment, and these PK's are supposed to be learning how to play nice. Which they're sort of doing.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
I also think that some of the inequity will get balanced out in the last section. But now you have really made me want to go back and redress some of it, show some of Aeryn's stubborness, her need to follow what she wants at the expense of a lot of things. As you said, to balance them so that they both come off as both heroic and flawed. Of course, I do think a lot of the conversation, the fight about the baby does this. John may be acting stubborn and closed minded, but he's not wrong about the risk or her right to take it in the context of what it means for them all.

yes, it does show... Aeryn is taking a 'risk' that she doesn't see (yet) but .. I'd have to go back and read it again when I'm more calm (big head case grin) ... but I think that particular section is in primarily maybe Aeryn's POV and so - at least for me - I see her as calm and collected and not grasping what John's thinking at the moment about the risk.

the point of view is gonna kill me, 'cause now I'm thinking its omniscent... crap, man!

I'm just gonna have to read it again!

But coming into part 3, yes, we do see more of Aeryn's 'flaws' shining through. AndI can imagine what's going to happen in part 4 when john hears that Aeryn may have instigated that little melee in the mess hall.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
I think what will come through as a result of that melee is a sense of their very different perspectives regarding childhood/adulthood, of what should be expected and what is realistic.

But I think Aeryn is finally starting to see that it's not just the kid, it's being gone, it's the trade offs John's already making. They're both working on things, constant renegotiations of space and time and work and family.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cretkid.livejournal.com
yup... exactly. she's starting to see the sacrifices that John is making, that she needs to make, to have the 'happily ever after' thing (though that thought doesn't sound right coming from Aeryn, but I think you catch my drift).

Date: 2005-06-23 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
Yeah, and that's one of the subtler points of balance. John has a much stronger idea of how a family needs to function, and Aeryn is starting to get what the limitations are, and what she needs to do to not put undue strain on her family.

Date: 2005-06-24 12:52 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i find this story a fascinating continuation of characters that are flawed. what amazes me is that despite their flaws they are creating ... for me ... the one "heroic" like character -D'argo. has his life not been long enough to manifest the flaws and repetitive reactions we don't seem to be able to correct (despite our best intentions)? or is he going to make choices that are flawed and repeated as well? i truly enjoy the interactions between john and aeryn. they feel real. my question would be - why is aeryn coming off as heroic? because the peacekeepers see her that way? because she is willing to pursue what she wants (for admirable reasons) even though she recognizes the honest fear it engenders in someone she loves? john is being an ass ... but he has always been an ass when he perceives it coming between aeryn and him. that is what causes this to feel true to what i have seen before. the intent of my questions is to understand these comments better ... not to disagree. i recognize that my comments are late but i am curious.

thanks -
attanaw

Date: 2005-06-24 01:03 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
one additional thought before i go on to read part III, i don't believe john has ever acted "heroically, violentally, etc." unless someone he personally cared about was in danger ... aeryn, chiana, d'argo (big), etc. ... it has always seemed to me that john's motivation was more personal. thanks for letting my supposed "epiphany".

attanaw

Date: 2005-06-29 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rubberneck.livejournal.com
it has always seemed to me that john's motivation was more personal. thanks for letting my supposed "epiphany".

Yes, exactly! He's the reluctant revolutionary, and even in PKW he does what he does because Aeryn asks, because rolling the dice is the only way to possibly gain the chance of seeing that baby grow up.

Date: 2005-06-29 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rubberneck.livejournal.com
what amazes me is that despite their flaws they are creating ... for me ... the one "heroic" like character -D'argo. has his life not been long enough to manifest the flaws and repetitive reactions we don't seem to be able to correct (despite our best intentions)? or is he going to make choices that are flawed and repeated as well?

Well I think he's too young to make his own repeated mistakes yet, still learning and malleable and prone to making newbie mistakes over any other kind. It's hard to tell at this point what lessons he'll find torturous/impossible to learn.

i truly enjoy the interactions between john and aeryn. they feel real. my question would be - why is aeryn coming off as heroic? because the peacekeepers see her that way? because she is willing to pursue what she wants (for admirable reasons) even though she recognizes the honest fear it engenders in someone she loves?

I'm not sure that she does, taking the story as a whole. Certainly the PKs have a very conflicted stance toward her, both threatened and somewhat disgusted as well along with being willing to work with her because of orders and the changing political atmosphere. We see the beginning more from her POV and so the role she plays in causing John's reaction is underplayed somewhat, and perhaps Thea and I haven't put it on the page as clearly as we should.

I'm not sure why John's role in the domestic sphere, doing much the same bridge-building work on an interpersonal level with alien kids, is dismissed so easily. He's also pursuing what he wants, doing his best by his son and also these other kids, retired from being an outlaw to take on the hard work of family life.

Date: 2005-06-24 05:32 pm (UTC)
kernezelda: (JCS 10)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
I don't think it's so much that Aeryn is seen as heroic, as that her work is more visible.

This probably isn't good for me to dwell on, because it only pisses me off, pardon my language.

What the frell happened? John destroyed a planet. What happened to make him a pathetic shell of a man in the minds of anyone? He did something that a Command Carrier could do, had the weapons (planet-buster) to do, but he did it alone in a weaponless Leviathan. He brought to bear a unimagined horror, so where did that fear go?

I should think PKs would be walking on eggshells around the infamous John Crichton, and appealing through Aeryn as an ameliorating influence.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2005-06-24 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
I think that it's also a way of protecting him, to make her a more visible force. It's a good defense, a good shield, if his abilities and his threat were spent with the peace accord, with that last horror, then he's safer now than he's ever been before. It's a way of protecting their family to think that he's no longer capable of wreaking that kind of destruction. He isn't burned out and hollow, but he's also not a man riding roughshod on the universe anymore and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. IT means he can finally live a life that he wants to live. And again, on the carrier they're on, people are supposed to be playing nice. I think on a fully loaded command carrier, the fear and distrust of both of them would be pretty ripe and pretty vicious.

HE may have destroyed a planet, may have beeen the single biggest threat to everything, may have brought peace, but that doesn't necessarily make him a hero in this situation. It was a Mexican standoff, and John used the only tool at his disposal and the outcome was good, but the price might have been too damned high and that's a scary thought, especially translated through ranks and families, the story twisting and distorting.

Date: 2005-06-24 06:30 pm (UTC)
kernezelda: (spiral grey drip)
From: [personal profile] kernezelda
HE may have destroyed a planet, may have beeen the single biggest threat to everything, may have brought peace, but that doesn't necessarily make him a hero in this situation.

Didn't say it made him heroic, said it was a horror.

Yes, getting out of the spotlight asap would be very much desired for the family, but given the impetus of war, how is peace maintained without the threat he offers? The motives behind war don't end because an external threat exists, and if the threat is removed, what keeps the peace processes proceeding against internal pressures?

For the family, it might be easier to know/believe him incapable of that level of destruction, but from the outside, it would be a disaster, I think. It just seems to run counter to logic to allow rumors of powerlessness to spread. PKs, Scarrans, various governments/figures/forces the Moyans have run against would certainly be emboldened to attack an offender who's now defenseless. He/They'd be more of a target than ever.

Where are the Eidolons? Where is Scorpius? Where is Grayza? What is the political backdrop to the story, the big picture behind training militias on buffer worlds? If the PKs are working toward alliance with 'lesser' races now, then this is not a move toward peace, it's ensuring there are enough bodies in place should the threat of war rise again.

Date: 2005-06-24 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thassalia.livejournal.com
I think all of those are completely legitimate questions that deserve to be addressed and answered. All good points and potential flaws in this universe.

But the simple answer? That's not the story we were looking to tell here. We wanted a story about families, about the way big things play out in our ordinary lives, as far as these people can be said to be living ordinary lives. The sort of, what do we do next aspect to their lives.

And the last sentence, yeah. The PK's are existing in peace, and making damned sure that there's cannon fodder out there should war hit again.

And in some ways, given the time, given the way the universe works, it may have moved on to other threats and other things, leaving John in it's wake.

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